You are not alone in feeling like this. A member of the military is at risk whether he obeys or disobeys an order, because the resulting court martial will eventually determine the legality of both the order and the subsequent military action or lack thereof. Several members claimed that they were only following the orders of military intelligence officials. Many of those defendants claimed that they were not guilty of the charges against them as they were "only following orders.". Public interest issues, policy, equality, human rights, social science, analysis, the view from the dark side: politics, media, cities & culture, Blogging about music from early 80s indie to Britpop and beyond, The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. Plato, FATHER + SAILOR + TECHNOLOGIST + MUSICIAN + CYCLIST. Forward march. Large gatherings forbidden. If these new benefit cuts come in, there is only 1 thing that will happen and that is the end of the world, simple reason is people will be made homeless because they cant afford to live in their homes so then they will be homeless, they reckon this figure will be as much as 500,000 British people and families, crime will then sky rocket and if 500,000 plus are made homeless where are they supposed to live, this will then cause major health problems and with the NHS as it is it wont be able to handle this, imagine now if just 1 person living on the streets from benefit cuts was to get seriously ill then it would spread like wildfire, imagine if this was an incurable disease then the Nhs could not then cope with this medical epidemic this would then turn into a pandemic and if this could not be cured this would either go world wide or Britain would then have to be destroyed and nuked from the earth in order to stop this from spreading. It has doubtless prevented people since the War from following illegal orders. Haggard said his teams study was more transparent. Definition of following orders in the Idioms Dictionary. In 2004, the military began court-martials of several military members deployed to Iraq for mistreating prisoners and detainees. Learn more about Friends of the NewsHour. The purpose of Think Left is to present a view of politics from a left-wing perspective. http://www.wssob.com/000ttwsb.html (Insignia section). You can't shoot an unarmed civilian, that goes against your principles. If a person catches a serious illness at home thats ok because it can be contained but if this was to happen on the streets then there is nothing to stop other people from catching this and it becoming wide spread just like a normal cold can be caught. I rose to the rank of corporal but was a squad leader. newsletter for analysis you wont find anywhereelse. According to Milgrams experiments, 65 percent of his volunteers, described as teachers, were willing (sometimes reluctantly) to press a button that delivered shocks up to 450 volts to an unseen person, a learner in another room. In this test, the agent can shock or take money from the victim, either acting on orders or by their own choice. "I was only following orders!" : r/socialism - Reddit we only know of them because tribunals, orders, and courts mention them. Your conscience tells you that you shouldn't be working these facilities for the Third Reich - it's immoral! Quote today i had my first success at the sit-fly. For Byron, it was a psychological necessity to put pen, or quill, to paper in order to exorcise the ever-proliferating denizens of his mind; an eviction notice to all thoughts that they must go out I Was "Only Following Orders" Is Not A Defense For Employees Following Orders - C3 Teachers Occasionally, the Nuremberg Defense is referred to as the Eichmann defense. During the Nuremberg trials, German field marshal Wilhelm Keitel, German Generaloberst Alfred Jodl and other defendants unsuccessfully used the defense. Pretty simple reasoning, if this person is in the military and ordered to do something the punishment for disobeying orders is/was often death. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Milgrams studies rested on a deception: Participants were instructed to administer severe shocks to an actor, who in fact merely feigned being shocked, Haggard said. Doctors are independent professionals. Millions have been slaughtered to satisfy the greed and lust for power of the few, and too often there is neither punishment for the guilty nor justice for the dead. pylon makes some interesting points about the excuses used by war criminals following the Second World War. Nazi war criminals were put on trial, so their crimes would be etched into the world's memory. For example, if an Army officer tells a sergeant to prepare his soldiers to clean the barracks for an upcoming inspection, there is the belief the order will be followed. Large gatherings no problem. Sorry, Jeff, I couldnt understand that. Nashua Office:20 Trafalgar SquareSuite 505Nashua, NH 03063, Portsmouth Office:155 Fleet StreetPortsmouth, NH 03801, 2023 Hamblett & Kerrigan, P.A. All it takes to become a victim is compliance. Thomas was only following orders - YouTube Masks not useful. Order Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster People had passed him and thought that he was asleep. A private soldier was permitted the defence I had to do it or I would have been shot. Our current federal government has embarked on a course that ignores the checks and balances defined by constitutional law. Are we as free-thinking as we assume? Providing Legal Services For More Than 125 Years, On Behalf of Hamblett & Kerrigan, P.A. Right face. In 1957, the Israeli legal system established the concept of a 'blatantly illegal order' to explain when a military (or security-related) order should be followed, and when it must not be followed. The first major UCMJ-related incident following Nuremburg was during inquiries and subsequent courts-martial following the My Lai Massacre of 16 March, 1968. In this test, the agent is not under the watchful gaze of an authority figure. Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders. If youre not doing it already, try wearing a baggy. To march in a military manner. Social Media for Small Business in Surrey & SW London. A handwritten request for clemency by Adolf Eichmann, an architect of the Nazi Holocaust, who said he shouldn't be held responsible for his actions because he and other low-level officers were following orders from their superiors. So now, many of these people see nothing wrong with Australia's army-enforced lockdown. Following the Nuremburg Trials, it became clear that the excuse, "I was only following orders" was an area that needed both clarification and elimination. I would say that the person who signed the order should be the one punished. As in the Nuremberg trials, I was only following orders proved not to be a valid defense, and those using it were found guilty in virtually every instance. click But the lesson stayed with me. The Court of Military Appeals held that "the justification for acts done pursuant to orders does not exist if the order was of such a nature that a man of ordinary sense and understanding would know it to be illegal." Online, the caption "I was just following orders* has been utilized in ironic memes, particularly in those in which various characters are edited into the photographs of 1945-1946 Nuremberg trials. Subscribe to Heres the Deal, our politics There were generals who did their best to counteract orders from above that were against principles of humanity; General der Flieger Alexander Andrae comes to mind. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Change), You are commenting using your Facebook account. Only Following Orders - The Irish Catholic The term is now essentially synonymous with the phrase "I was only following orders", a phrase that has been used in defending accused war criminals for centuries. Unfortunately (for them), that defense doesn't fly. Log in or register to write something here or to contact authors. Evil grown so pervasive, so ordinary, no one notices it anymore. ET for the sentencing for Alex Murdaugh. Joshua Barajas The main argument for defense, as themusic mentions in hir writeup and the node title subtly gives away, was "I was only following orders.". This page was last edited on 21 November 2021, at 01:42. The phrase can refer to any attempt to deflect personal responsibility for a crime onto institutions like an army or the state. These have to be strong examples of a direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ and not the military members own opinion. Taking the high road is not only the right thing to do; it is in you self-centered interest. To be a hero requires courage in the face of adversity. Calley wound up spending 3 1/2 years under house arrest atFort Benning, Georgia, where a federal judge ultimately ordered his release. Holocaust survivors and their families in Israel today will readily affirm their solemn pledge, Never again!. You remember the one who lied about everything and spent all his time blaming immigrants for running the country. "I was only following orders" The Mix Support Community Doctors forbidden to prescribe ivermectin. Reblogged this on perfectlyfadeddelusions. I enjoyed barking orders more than I enjoyed following them. He died of hypothermia. Doctors forbidden to prescribe ivermectin. That defense was first used in a 1799 naval blockade case and subsequently has been used in military cases related to the Vietnam War more often than in any other conflict. . Haggards team also used a questionnaire in the second experiment to get explicit judgments from the volunteers, who explained they felt less responsible when they acted under orders. As a result, if an employees manager or the business owner requests an employee to commit a criminal act, the employee should not do so and thereafter should speak privately with employment counsel to determine the best strategy as to that situation. But these men with guns and authority tell you to do so, and if you oppose orders of an officer, you risk death even yourself! The tamer skill where you walk to heal HP/MP is good if you want free healing, but you have to waste some time by walking around doing nothing. This is not much help when the whole machinery of state is geared in this direction--when there are few apparent distinctions to assist in making such a decision. A jury found Murdaugh guilty of murdering his wife and son. The Vietnam War presented the United States military courts with more cases of the "I was only following orders" defense than any previous conflict. Not everyone disregards history. The Nuremberg Trials of German war criminals after World war II determined that this is no defense, and that some orders are illegal and must not be followed. To the rear march. It is truly fascinating and instructive that human beings obviously have an innate and universal set of moral principles regardless of their geographical location, language, origin, or religion. The biggest argument I can see against this is who should get the blame then? Cast Your Vote To Select The Meme Of The Month! And now, lawyers for some of the Army reservists charged with abusing prisoners in Iraq say they're innocent for the same reason. Even soldiers who are fighting in an unjust war must still be treated as legal combatants, and not held responsible for the war itself. I was only following orders - Speakers Corner - Dropzone.com If you are the person who placed the order, you should have received a confirmation email shortly after completing your transaction. In other words, people actually feel disconnected from their actions when they comply with orders, even though theyre the ones committing the act. Superior orders - Wikipedia The "I Was Only Following Orders" Defense. They lead to disjointed domestic and foreign policies and to the abdication of congressional responsibilities. While multiple documented uses of "superior orders" defence have existed prior, the plea is most commonly associated with the 1945-1946 Nuremberg trials, the military tribunals that followed World War II. It gives me a purpose. Not voting Tory is a start! [7] Reddit I was just following orders for gods sake! Unlike Milgrams classic research, Haggards team introduced a shocking element that was missing in the original 1960s experiments: actual shocks. I led my squad in manual of arms and close-order drill, which taught us three things: Covid not spread person-to-person. When should "I was only following orders?" invoke sympathy? Military discipline and effectiveness are built on a foundation of obedience to orders. Image courtesy of Caspar et al., Current Biology (2016). In a 1962 letter, as a last-ditch effort for clemency, Holocaust organizer Adolf Eichmann wrote that he and other low-level officers were forced to serve as mere instruments, shifting the responsibility for the deaths of millions of Jews to his superiors. Last edited by Rain/Storm ; 19 minutes ago. The various other courts-martial considered the troops' defence - that they were "only following orders" - in the light of UCMJ. I went through four years of ROTC in high school and college. The military court rejected Calley's argument of obeying the order of his superiors. Yes, there were ruthless killers among them that thrived on the opportunity provided them by the government. To develop a sense of group cohesion. This incident probably rates as the worst in US post-War military history. Thank you. That punishment could mean reassignment to a penal unit in Dachau and perhaps a death sentence, even. They are legislating by executive decree, ignoring restrictions on constitutional authority, putting our national economy and personal financial futures at enormous risk, and imposing laws and penalties on citizens without due process. Right shoulder arms. [2] YouTube Thomas was only following orders. Dan. Construct an argument (e.g., detailed outline, poster, essay) that discusses the compelling question using specific claims and relevant evidence from historical sources while acknowledging competing views. In a second experiment, the team explored whether the loss of agency could also be seen in the brain activity of subjects. I was only following orders! | AnandTech Forums: Technology, Hardware This inspired, if that is the word, Hannah Arendt to coin the phrase, banality of evil. For those like Adolf Eichmann or Josef Mengele, that response is hardly viable. In other cases, the experimenter looked away, while the agent acted on their own volition. Following orders that are immoral is an excuse only in a totalitarian nation. During the trials, the "superior orders" defense gained such significant notoriety that it started being used interchangeably with "Nuremberg defense" and associated with the German phrase "Befehl ist Befehl" ("an order is an order" or "only following orders"). Last week Showtime announced that "Billions," its drama about hedge fund egomaniacs, will be spawning several spinoffs. Nazi war criminals. At ease. They are takeout only and they just opened so wait times may be long! I Was Only Following Orders!" Is This an Acceptable Defense? I was only following orders.. - Page 2 So spreading a big lie like Nazi Germany should be avoided, and the lying sycophants of the disgraced, twice impeached insurrection at should be removed from any positions of authority to avoid going down a path of killing people of a different ethnic background. Can you suggest a solution to the troubling increase in the use of presidential executive orders? Until one day you are given a notice, you were conscripted into the Waffen-SS, along with another 200,000 Wehrmacht guys, to be sent as guards to a concentration camp. For example, a September 3rd, 2019, repost[4] of the meme by Redditor ElJeanMermoude received over 18,000 upvotes in /r/fakehistoryporn subreddit. At no point, however, did someone truly experience an electric shock. This can be applied even down to the lowest solider who is in territory not originally belonging to his country. The Nuremburg Trials proved beyond any doubt that if the excuse of "I was only obeying orders" could have a consequence as horrifying as the Holocaust it was imperative that International Law must prevent such an excuse being used and accepted ever again. For example, in New Hampshire a manager acting on behalf of his corporate employer in firing an employee that legitimately complained about sexual harassment by the owner could be found liable under the state employment discrimination laws along with the corporate employer for his participation in the illegal retaliation. Adolph Hitler and the Nazi elite of the infamous Third Reich, however, remain one memorable instance in which good triumphed and evil was publicly held responsible. If they use force to compel your compliance, what will you do? The military oath taken at the time of induction into the military is as follows: "I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. All is lost until some large organization like the Institute for Justice, brings themselves to attack the basic root of the problem and millions of Americans file Petitions similar to mine at: http://onlinedocketssc.flcourts.org/DocketResults/CaseDocket?Searchtype=Case+Number&CaseYear=2018&CaseNumber=1540. You figure you are probably bound for battlefields of France or Russia or perhaps the Battle of Britain. While the facts of that case were quite egregious, that courts application of the employment discrimination statute to find agents of employers that assist in the discrimination liable was supported by the direct language of the statute. On August 27the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) announced that the number who died while claiming incapacity benefits between January 2011 and February 2014 was a shocking 91,740. The changing relative values of violence, strength, and mental ability required different guidelines to ensure acceptable behavior in a group setting. I Was Just Following Orders | Know Your Meme These serious problems and worries are not something this government will have thought of but this is a very serious possibility of happening im the future if these sick cuts do come in next April as where the hell are 500,000 homeless people going to live? In the Uniform Code of Military Justice, there is discussion concerning lawful versus unlawful orders, a critical distinction that is difficult or even impossible to define. Since power seized is rarely relinquished, eventual totalitarian oppression of the population is inevitable. Fire hundreds of nurses and techs who refuse vaccination. Squad attention. Duncan Smiths attacks on the most vulnerable in society are being undertaken on the basis of the Tory support for austerity which is one of the greatest ever confidence tricks perpetuated on the British public. Cycles of History Ignored - "I was only following orders" The concept was explained in 1957 in the Kafr Qasim massacre ruling. Thus the argument, "I was only following orders" became difficult to prove - no-one was really sure who was competent enough to give orders, nor of the mental state (considering post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)) of those who followed them. The oligarchs must then impose authoritarian and increasingly brutal measures to maintain control. Often the use of deadly force is necessary to stop a criminal in police work, just as in international affairs.<P>As for following orders; Not only were these people not given any choice (disobey . Article 90 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) outlines the crime of willful disobedience by a military member a superior commissioned officer. Vaccine less protective, no return to normal. It appears Jacob is at the _________ of . The risk of obeying an unlawful order - MultiBriefs Scottish Civic Nationalism? If a low ranking soldier or officer is told that the building is full of insurgents and is ordered to attack it, and later it turns out it's a school, and there are 30 dead kids before the mistake is realized, is following orders a valid defense? It is very easy to cast those such as Heinrich Himmler and Josef Mengele as war criminals that deserve to be hung, but can you say the same for those that truly were just following orders and those who had no say in the matter?

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