How do you take a company with those tractions, 10 million in revenue. And we were talking about the $46 million round which was the C round, C as in cat and basically what you were talking about I mean what Ive seen is that you guys have shifted a little bit the strategy. Got it. So I guess like I have one thing to follow up on this. They may not understand marketplace as well as you but they may be able to bring a brilliant way of thinking about how to bring the supply on [30:20]. I learned more from you than you learned from me, and then your job as CEO is to do kind of two or three things, that is to continue to advance like the vision and the mission of the company and keep everything strategically aligned. Had worked in politics. So cofounders are difficult especially if youre not technical as really hard to find a good technical cofounder but the great thing is once you do and it takes a long time, they are able to attract the next generation of talent in to the company and thats how you kind of build your engineering team out. The second one is have a vision and a mission that people agree with and we all wanted to [37:13] this vision make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Over-Communication. That is where your focus is and even though you kind of missed doing some of the stuff and the weeds and my team continue to tell me to get away from the weed and continue to [36:12] the 50,000 set, you have to let it go and trust your team to do a better job than you were doing. So if the story has changed in a way that merits the focus of the company but what is consistent every single time weve raised is that for six months in a row, we had really, really quick growth. You just get to this kind of motion of you all feel the same and you kind of pull in the same direction. Hes raising money now. "These markets had a huge net migration from New York and California, and they have held up," he says. After that, it changed to more consumer. You are going to get a bunch of nos so I wouldnt rule people out too early. It was like $46 million. I think if you hire four cofounders like yourself, thats difficult and luckily we didnt have that problem. I mean if you could give some kind of like tips you know both fronts it would be really fantastic. I mean to a point network gets you an intro but a lot of intros are 10 minute meetings where the VC immediately decides its not for them which is totally fair. So it doesnt always work out and I think thats fine. It was not something Ive really ever thought about before. And [14:42] in Silicon Valley is married to [graphics 14:43] mostly in terms of great companies just break out and succeed [agnostic 14:48] as to where people went to college or if they came from a wealthy or poor family. See How I Can Help You With Your Fundraising Efforts. They wanted to close apartments like they book a hotel and so took the status of like 35 different apartments we leased using the technology in San Francisco to VCs and said, Hey, were really going to rebuild all of this but heres some data that shows this really can work at scale, and thats how we raised the first million dollars from some of the names that you mentioned. Like many of our most successful entrepreneurs, Anthemos Georgiades was drawn into startup life to solving a burning problem. So the majority of that is still in the bank but yeah, we raised money in capital [12:00]. Make sure tenants understand why things are . Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. And in terms of preparation, Anthemos, how has the preparation like preparing before going to market to start engaging investors, how have you seen with your business, with Zumper, how have you seen that changed over time as the rounds were maturing? So you kind of just have to [25:29] but just to be clear yeah, we had far more nos than yeses at the seed round. Got it. And then my other cofounder Kurt Taylor I met through his mother who was an [04:43] and it was another example of just pure hustle. I dont think theres a startup I could have launched that taught me more. How many landlords did we have on the site? So our CFO is fantastic and what he was able to bring to the series C was real credibility where I meet the investors, get them excited about our vision and our story and then they spend hours with the CFO on the second or third meeting digesting our historical financial as were talking about where were headed. Vishal Makhijani President & COO. It is your job not just to do the day to day but once or twice a year you should be doing stuff that has a completely linear outcome where one day youre doing you know 3 million users a month and the next day youre doing 5 million users a month. So Im completely there with you. At the end of the day though, whether its senior people, junior people, interns who we want to bring back is all under pinned by culture. But I guess you were saying then here the shift, kind of like shifted more from like growth of users perhaps retention to more kind of like deep revenue growth. I guess the question that I would ask you and perhaps some advice for some of those that are listening, that are building a business that is more around the network effects, the marketplaces, should they walk the other way if the investor is asking too much about revenue early on on the financing cycles? Everyone filling gaps where they could and it [07:02] fulfilling gaps in to where youre skilled and so I think the most obvious thing to do for that is to hire people with very different skill sets to you that allows you to never really have awkward overlap and egos because everyone is kind of skilled at something very unique. So when you go in to a fundraising in terms of preparation the most important thing is that your last six months are great and your most important metrics are all growing really nicely so kind of five, six months in a row that is a fantastic story to tell to an investor. Got it. And then at business school, I think the single biggest thing I learned through the case study method which is how they teach it at Harvard Business School but I think its true. Alejandro: Got it. One is I wouldnt be too pressured about it too early. I mean youre doing various jobs, head of sales, head of finance, head of fundraising, head of like DZ. Got it. Now we have supply so the six months curve at the series B was all about users and millions of monthly users and then at the series C it was much more revenue curve. Retention is something I think about every day. If you want me to help you with your fundraising, just book a call. Could you meet him? And so whereas that doesnt guarantee any success we obviously have to have really good numbers and a really good story to tell them. I knew the CEO for a while. So I guess for those listeners that are looking at acquiring other companies to perhaps grow a little bit faster, what kind of advice would you give to them? We also actually had a really wonderful fourth cofounder whos no longer with us. Like what have you seen that really works? But oh we must have had like 20 persons or 20 people say not now or later. So strategically that was a good marriage where they had a great consumer brand and we have really fantastic supply side inventory. Its not about the ski trips and any of that you know. If you guys are Zumper website, you can kind of kind at zumper.com the Contact Us or on Twitter I am just @anthemos, A-N-T-H-E-M-O-S on Twitter and yeah, I respond to people. They were [sexy 23:47] company and really fantastic fundraisers but the rounds just take a long time, due diligence take a long time. So we have several million users using our platform every month now which is great and next year we wanted tens of millions of users a month and were poised to doing that. We have like four people at the company for the first year or maybe five for the first year and so theres so much to do and theres so little time and few resources that you actually theres no real intellectual whiteboarding session that you do to carve out rose. I think its easy not to set those expectations and get caught in the relationship where neither side is being clear on what they expect. Were going to charge you per lead or for the smaller landlords we charge them if theyre [11:15] for the transaction. In the early days we love the exposure to Silicon Valley investors. Weve only been working with Axle Springer for four months now but they are fantastic. Yeah. At series A, you got to show product market set in a sub vertical. They may not understand marketplace as well as you but they may be able to bring a brilliant way of thinking about how to bring the supply on [30:20]. So Anthemos, whats the business model here? Were growing very quickly but none of that was true obviously in the first two years. Alejandro: Got it. It was just purely hustling my network for six months to find people who are really great cultural fit but also have very different skill sets to the one I have. They were super lean team of under five people and its been a great deal for Zumper like we have one backend, one sales team and then two consumer platforms. Additionally, Anthemos Georgiades has had 2 past jobs including Consultant at The Boston Consulting Group. Were growing very quickly but none of that was true obviously in the first two years. Alejandro: Got it. If you guys are Zumper website, you can kind of kind at zumper.com the Contact Us or on Twitter I am just @anthemos, A-N-T-H-E-M-O-S on Twitter and yeah, I respond to people. Get Anthemos Georgiades's email address (a*****@zumper.com) and phone number (646398..) at RocketReach. Oh wow, good question. Alrightee. Yeah, I mean BCG I think you get access to the 23 year olds CEOs who had been working for 40 years and kind of crazy in consulting you take the shortcut in your careers to being in the board room. So the way we monetize this is we either monetize the landlord mainly and we either charge them to leads. So what I wanted to ask you here is in terms of on boarding lets say this type of, because its a different beast, you know type of investors so how does the approach from evaluating an investor that is a VC, an angel or an angel group shift towards evaluating a potential strategic corporation that is looking to become part of your cap table? For Zumper's Georgiades, many Florida markets, such as Fort Lauderdale, Miami, Orlando, and Tampa, have been the big pandemic winners. At the end of the day though, whether its senior people, junior people, interns who we want to bring back is all under pinned by culture. Anthemos Georgiades is the co-founder and CEO of Zumper, the largest startup in the rental industry, used by more than 26 million renters last year alone. You are going to get a bunch of nos so I wouldnt rule people out too early. Got it. Alejandro: Of course and I agree with you there, Anthemos. So we solved it to the first two years purely by getting landlords on board through various kind of product strategy and so our growth cuts for the first two years that we raised the [27:41] were purely about landlords and listing. And so I finally just gave in and thought no one is going to build this. Well, Anthemos, it has been a pleasure to have you on the show. Alejandro: Got it and before we actually dive in to the journey here, so consulting and business school, this is a few things that I typically hear so from some of our other guests. Yeah. I was really impressed when because its not hard, its almost impossible to land VC such as Kleiner Perkins on literally your first financing round, the seed round. So strategically that was a good marriage where they had a great consumer brand and we have really fantastic supply side inventory. I'm so proud of my wife Lucy Georgiades and her cofounder Lindsey Nehls on launching their business Elevate Academy today. In terms of investors, I guess two comments. FUNDED EP01: How to tell a story worth $140 million dollars (Zumper) 00:00 51:07 Episode Summary Anthemos Georgiades, founder of Zumper, perfected his pitch the way most founders do: through trial and error. Yeah. Get a custom action plan and all the help that you need to start raising more capital. Its not about the ski trips and any of that you know. And I mean its quite a few cofounders. Got it. I mean to a point network gets you an intro but a lot of intros are 10 minute meetings where the VC immediately decides its not for them which is totally fair. And then when I moved out to America, Russel was software engineer at Google and I had no technical background so I basically hit up my network for anyone with a technical background living in the US who might be interested in joining and Russel and I really hit it off and he was the perfect cofounder. And it was just [22:11] during the process that its a startup, were at growth stage but not to expect to be able to predict our courses like that public company again. Yeah, sure. I know entrepreneurs who spend nine months raising their rounds which is a long time but they got great rounds done. I met Russel who [04:01] engineering products through just the personal connections in London. In many instances, really acquisitions are great to either feel growth on the company itself, either on the product or perhaps by adding a great talent, but unfortunately many M&A transactions fail really on the integration side of things. It was just purely hustling my network for six months to find people who are really great cultural fit but also have very different skill sets to the one I have. So I guess for a marketplace or lets say for the people that are listening to us like what kind of metrics do you think for the most part if were talking about hyper growth companies, like they should be a little bit more mindful about? So I learned a lot from a few companies that I loved, a few companies that I thought are doing crazy things I learned so much. So you know I think Axle Springer very used to appraising companies that match their scale. Culture is everything and so investing in people making sure I as the CEO spend a lot of time as much as possible with people who dont report to me is absolutely critical and that is ultimately like the fabric on how most companies are run. I mean at the end of the day, building and scaling companies especially when youre at the early stages is all about survival and its all about learning to be with each other behind the trenches and really going to war and having each others backs. Anthemos Georgiades CEO at Zumper United States 4K followers 500+ connections Join to view profile Zumper Harvard Business School Websites Websites Company Website http://www.zumper.com Company. So tell me your story a little bit here, Anthemos. Absolutely. I was also doing, Ive been doing marketplaces for I think like 10 years now and I remember in the last company, I would go and meet with investors and they kept asking me for the chicken and the egg. There was no book [01:41]. what was the premier league called before; And I mean its quite a few cofounders. Got it. Whats your story and most importantly, how did you get started with the entrepreneurial bug? Retention is something I think about every day. Well, today's guest noticed that experience and wanted to improve it. Your second month you spend getting term sheets and documents signed. It was incredibly difficult. Alejandro: And did you diversify this responsibility with the other cofounders or was there one of you guys that has always been leading the chart on the financing side? At Zumper, based in San Francisco, he leads the company in its mission to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. So what was that process like you were talking about, yes, your network of Harvard but can you share with us like what was that process of landing Kleiner on your seed round? If you dont have those connections, I think this is where like a lot of these accelerators and incubators, Y Combinator or Techstars or Launch are really good where you can apply. Alejandro: Just out of curiosity, Anthemos, like how many nos did you get for example on your seed round if you have to count it? 1.4.1 - Provisions of this Code Declared . Published by at June 13, 2022. Got it. And then now your job at five, six years in with a team of a hundred with higher and amazing executive team who are all better at doing their jobs than you would ever be and so your job is almost as a CEO is to like hire yourself out of a job where you hire people, where you look at them and you think, Wow, I cant believe you report to me. Weve only been working with Axle Springer for four months now but they are fantastic. So I guess how did that consulting experience shape up your approach in terms of like tackling problems and the entrepreneurial journey itself? We envisioned a world in which a renter can find apartments, book in [tour 10:18], turn up the [10:21] and if they want to take the apartment pre-qualify, leave a deposit and book the apartment. Prices can change quickly! So you still have to land it and once youre on the door it doesnt matter where you come from you have to have something good. I have no experience doing that. So I guess lets say we had the opportunity to put you in front of your younger self, Anthemos, in 2012 before you were to close that seed round, what would be that piece of advice that you would give to your younger self with everything that youve learned having this journey ahead of you? It was always a man, there is a really tough problem that consumers experience and no one is solving it. Saying that, I have connections through both business school and previous people that have gone through BCG venture capital and most of your listeners and entrepreneurs will know so much of this is about like getting warm introductions to VCs so I did have a couple of cheats to get in through the network or through the BCG network. Because I speak with a ton of founders that are perhaps opening up the possibility of bringing on corporations and I think that you need to really do it right. Yes, weve raised $90 million in capital including a series C that we just closed three months ago. I have no experience doing that. Every fantastic company has had hundreds of nos on the way to kind of huge outcomes and you just cant take it personally. Your third month is getting kind of diligence done and getting the wires in to the door. Like what have you seen that really works? Since 2012, Georgiades has grown Zumper to over 200 employees, 178 million annual visits, and raised $178 million in venture capital for the company. So lets talk about Zumper here. It happened but I wouldnt say its like an obvious part. Since 2012, Georgiades has grown Zumper to over 200 employees, 178 million annual visits, and raised $178 million in venture capital for the company. Youll get terms sheets and yeses hopefully quicker than that but this process takes a while and as the money increases and a few rounds become more complicated, it can take more than three months as well. They take every, some people go and warm theirif you have a brilliant idea, theyd be crazy not to take it and then their entire value is obviously give you a three month program and then at the end expose you to liek 40 investors. So I learned a lot from a few companies that I loved, a few companies that I thought are doing crazy things I learned so much. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Were incredibly grateful for everything she did and she remains kind of shareholder in the company. So that was great. Pat Mapper caters to 25 and under and kind of big college populations. Got it. So for the business, Anthemos, how much capital have you guys raised today? Read More: Sujal Patel On Selling His First Business For $2.6 Billion And Now Raising $108 Million From Jeff Bezos And Others To Improve Medical Diagnostics. All of it is going to be important and it will come out at the right stage. @zumper Stories Uncategorized So we want to be the first ever kind of full stack rental platform for long term leases and we monetize that two ways. And for you I guess personally and professionally because I think they both come together, so how has your leadership and management skills changed over the time from leading the company of lets say four to ten folks initially to a company of over a hundred employees? And so I wouldnt be too pressured. And so I wouldnt be too pressured. Yeah. Your job as the CEO and the founder is to convince your investors of the reason to do this. So you know I think Axle Springer very used to appraising companies that match their scale. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. We both had ideas to be entrepreneurs but neither of us have the guts to actually go for it. Great question. Got it. So for Zumper our vision as I mentioned was to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel and so instead of going in with just an idea, I built like a really crappy version of the end game that I wanted to build. Could you meet him? And so whereas that doesnt guarantee any success we obviously have to have really good numbers and a really good story to tell them. Were very clear with Axle Springer that we have a lot of consumer scale so a lot of people use our platform on a monthly basis but were still building the [21:55]. Well, first of all, your point about quashing the egg and shooting the chicken. I was just talking to a friend of mine about this. So we want to be the first ever kind of full stack rental platform for long term leases and we monetize that two ways. Not really actually. Were very clear with Axle Springer that we have a lot of consumer scale so a lot of people use our platform on a monthly basis but were still building the [21:55]. For me, its Zumper, an apartment rental platform. In the first two or three years you will kill your marketplace if you create any barriers to entry from either side. So I guess without further ado, Anthemos Georgiades from Zumper, welcome aboard. I think Id say forget everything you think you know and everything, your education [38:28]. Anthemos Georgiades is the CEO of <a href="http://zumperblog.kinsta.cloud">Zumper</a>. Well, Anthemos, it has been a pleasure to have you on the show. I think just up front boundaries before you close the round is super important. In the early days we love the exposure to Silicon Valley investors. Anthemos Georgiades is CEO/Co-Founder at Zumper Inc. See Anthemos Georgiades's compensation, career history, education, & memberships. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. So we have several million users using our platform every month now which is great and next year we wanted tens of millions of users a month and were poised to doing that. So I saw NEA, Kleiner Perkins, Graylog, Andreesen Horrowitz, just to name a few. Anthemos and Russell met in London while working at a consulting company back in 2006, but it was after they moved to the U.S and experienced the pain of finding a place to live that they decided to found Zumper along with Taylor Glass-Moore and Leah Jones. And you know I think hiring is definitely tough but retaining is even more complicated so is there any things that you for example seen yourself that work on that front? Terms & Conditions! He had actually interviewed me for a job at a different consulting firm and we stayed in touch. Alejandro: So I guess in just to like follow up on that, what in your mind and obviously in what youve seen creates really that magical relationship between cofounders? We didnt go that route because I have the network but if I didnt have the network and some people have the network and still do it, they are really good cheap in to getting scaled quickly. I think if you set these expectations from the very beginning that are super important. So I as British person moving to Silicon Valley in 2012 I have never run a startup before. The second one is have a vision and a mission that people agree with and we all wanted to [37:13] this vision make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Russell Middleton Co-Founder. In the early days, youre going to need to take all the capital you can get. His passion for relieving the stress for others in apartment rentals has given birth to a venture which has now raised $90 million, has experienced tremendous growth, and boasts a VC line up of some of the most prized investors in Silicon Valley. It has to be me and thats how I started the company six years ago after business school. So I think three months is an efficient round. Youre right that is wrong advice. Tanguy Le Louarn Chief Product Officer. Township Of Ocean Police Department. You know marketplaces and liquidity is king like you were pointing to finding what you need in the shortest period of time because otherwise theyre going to go elsewhere. Zumper which is a little bigger in terms of audience now caters more to urban professionals moving within cities. Thank you so much. Got it. Alejandro: I love it. We saw it would take three to six months to integrate Pat Mapper and their backend that engineering project we worked really hard and quickly just over a year to integrate so we underestimated like how much work was required to integrate them by 3x. June 12, 2022 . The other large investor in this round [20:05] scale so once you have product market set, how do you scale that? [06:54] the early days and it worked where there was just all hands to the pump. [06:54] the early days and it worked where there was just all hands to the pump. He discovered that the marketplace doesnt work for renters, and the idea for Zumper was born with the goal of evening the playing field and increasing transparency in the marketplace. Got it. So I think three months is an efficient round. Got it. How many landlords did we have on the site? I met Russel who [04:01] engineering products through just the personal connections in London. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. It seemed crazy that the real estate industry wasnt moving towards on demand. And so just be prepared that however smart, however many smart people have looked the deal and thought about whether it will work, it always take a little bit more time than you think it will to integrate because theres always some gremlin kind of hiding in the works that youre going to find. I really enjoyed it and great stuff. And so I didnt really think about it too often because this is kind of 15 years ago but then I moved to another six or seven times into an apartment rentals in London, in Boston, in New York and the process is so bad every time, not just in searching but also in actually like getting the apartment. The one unifying theme in every fundraising Ive run is momentum. A lot of it was completely bottom up. Youre right that is wrong advice. Anthemos Paul Georgiades has been associated with one company, according to public records. We love our investors. It was kind of [31:51] as early as we did to buy another stock up that was kind of four years in. There was no book [01:41]. And the biggest change in the series C I just raised versus in the early days is having a CFO. And investors love that story because its easy to believe that you can continue to do that. They are the two ways that Zumper currently monetizes them and there are two folks that [11:35]. You start to build depth and management structures. So you still have to land it and once youre on the door it doesnt matter where you come from you have to have something good. Great question. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. You look at your cofounders and you know that they understand that and that theyre not freaking out, that is where you build real institutional culture and then you try and grow that across the team. Im the CEO and Ive always felt that it was my responsibility to do the fundraising. Got it. It was at the time Pat Mapper example almost the same size on consumer but now Zumper is much bigger but we called it like a cheat and your job as the founder is to identify like vertical cheats where overnight you become bigger than your competitors. So watching board members from the early investments are [19:38] who now runs Good Water but was originally Kleiner and then Eric [19:42] from Kleiner and theyre both experts at product market set. 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